Let's start with your appointment and strategy. You have been given charge of Uttar Pradesh at a time when the 2027 Assembly elections are quite close. What specific responsibility has the party high command given you, and how will you strengthen Congress's weak organisation?

It is undoubtedly challenging, but anyone can do easy work. Just as Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar took up challenges and solved them. The party's volunteers are present in every single village. When I have gone village to village, I have found elderly people up to 90 years old standing who love Congress. And given the kind of atmosphere across the country, everyone is looking at Congress as an alternative. Because the way Rahul Gandhi ji undertook the Bharat Jodo Yatra and Bharat Jodo Nyay Yatra, and took the Constitution in his hand and resolved to save the Constitution and democracy, that has created faith among people not just in UP but across the whole country. And that faith, wherever I go in Uttar Pradesh, I am seeing it everywhere. People are looking at Congress as an alternative. Because the way all the other parties have been broken — parties that either merged with the BJP, joined the NDA; those who didn't join were pressured with ED, CBI, Income Tax cases, and later they joined too. Even those who didn't join and fought against them, and whom the people elected, later had their MPs, MLAs and parties broken away. In such a situation, only Rahul Gandhi is standing firm, fighting resolutely, and the people see him as someone they can trust. I am confident that I will succeed in reaching every village of Uttar Pradesh, and the Congress party will emerge before the public as a strong alternative.

Your appointment is being seen as a signal of Dalit outreach. How will you convert this symbolic step into real electoral gains — especially among those Dalit voters who have drifted away from Congress, who were once BSP voters and have now shifted to being BJP voters?

Look, that vote will come back because wrong things were put into the minds of those voters somewhere along the way. But now I will explain things to people with clarity. For example, before independence, society was governed by the Manusmriti. And under the Manusmriti, we — the Shudras and untouchables of this country, and women — had no right to study, no right to acquire knowledge, no right to discuss knowledge, no right to trade, no right to acquire property. That is why society remained backward for thousands of years. But the fight for social justice that was started by Jyotirao Phule, Savitribai Phule, and Shahuji Maharaj was carried to its conclusion by Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar. And through the Constitution, he created a path for them to move forward. But on 6 December 1956, Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar passed away. After that, it was Congress that implemented his policies. Scholarships were given so that Dalit and tribal children could pursue higher education. And it was that same government, during Congress's time, that brought in the 'Prevention of SC/ST Atrocities Act'. It was during Congress's time that the nationalisation of banks happened in July 1969. It was during Congress's time that they got land leases for farming, leases for residential plots. In place of slums, they got homes in resettlement colonies. It was during Congress's time that their entire path forward was built. Reservation was also applied to petrol pumps and gas agencies. It was during Congress's time that, through industrial development by development authorities, they also got reservation in industrial plots and residential plots. It was during Congress's time that the Right to Information was granted, during Congress's time that the Right to Food Security was granted, during Congress's time that forest and land rights were granted, during Congress's time that labourers got 100 days of employment guarantee (MGNREGA). So it is Congress that gives, that has given. So through this we will succeed in making people understand that the middle class we built, the class of people who became donors (who built BAMCEF, or DS4, or BSP) — that donor class — if Congress hadn't built a path forward for them, if it hadn't implemented Babasaheb's policies, then our donor class wouldn't have come into being at all; the Dalit middle class wouldn't have been born at all.

How do you view the past nine and a half years of the Uttar Pradesh government? And what is Congress bringing to the table for the people of Uttar Pradesh?

Look, Uttar Pradesh has a dictatorial government. One that has no faith in this country's courts, no faith in the law. It has turned the police into killers. Under the law, if a crime happens anywhere, the police are supposed to arrest the accused, investigate, file a chargesheet, the court takes cognizance, frames charges, holds a trial, records evidence, and if guilt is proven, then punishment is given. Dalits, Muslims, Brahmins have been killed at the hands of the police in the name of encounters. And they are running bulldozers and demolishing the homes of the poor. And they have specifically run a campaign against Muslims. If we talk about the Nepal border area, numerous madrasas and mosques have been demolished. Whereas there are churches there too, there are temples there too — those were not attacked. So, if we evaluate these facts, it becomes clear that this government is not doing a single thing in the interest of the people. Papers are being leaked, there is no justice in exams. In the matter of 68,000 vacancies, they stole nearly 8,000 vacancies meant for OBCs and SCs and gave them to the general category. So, this is committing terrible injustice against the backward classes, against Dalits. And they are targeting Muslims, targeting and demolishing their homes, targeting and shutting down their businesses. Now tell me, during Kanwar Yatra the entire road remains closed, but if people want to offer half an hour of namaz, you are filing cases against them, intimidating them. Brother, the government doesn't have its own religion — the government's religion is the Constitution. So either treat everyone the same way — that no religious event will happen on the road, no one will block the road, no one will close it. But giving free rein to one religion while targeting another religion and filing cases against it — that is wrong, isn't it? And in cases of crimes against Dalits, Uttar Pradesh is number one in all of India. In cases of rape and harassment of women too, Uttar Pradesh is number one in all of India. So this is a dictatorial regime. Here there is no justice at all for the poor, for women, for Dalits, for the backward classes, for tribals, for Muslims. Whose government is this? This is only a government of the Thakurs.

You recently wanted to visit Behenji Mayawati's residence — so is there still any scope for some kind of understanding or cooperation with BSP, or have those doors closed?

Look, whichever political parties have faith in this country's Constitution and democracy, who believe that governance should be of the people and for the people, who see everyone with a view of equality and justice — let all such sections unite. And let them unite against this dictatorial, oppressive government — our doors are open to everyone. Now people will have to decide — either with the BJP or against the BJP. There is no middle path where you keep hanging in between, neither here nor there.

Earlier this year, there was a big CJP movement, and that CJP movement brought young people's anger over paper leaks and the examination system out onto the streets. How will Congress carry this movement forward, and how will it politically channel it among the youth in Uttar Pradesh?

First understand one thing — even before this movement began, Rahul Gandhi has continuously, both inside and outside Parliament, and by going among students through 'Chatron Ki Goonj', been continuously warning the youth and students of this country. He is continuously building pressure on the government to stop paper leaks. The education system has collapsed, the legal system has collapsed, the bureaucratic system has collapsed, the Election Commission is in BJP's pocket, all investigation agencies are being used by BJP against the opposition. And on the issue of students, and the way education is being snatched away from children by making it expensive... on five types of exams (which include NEET, JEE, UPSC, SSC, RRB), parents are spending Rs 3,58,000 crore. Whereas this amount would cover the budget of five ministries of the Government of India — including Labour, Science, Women and Child Development, Education and Health. The combined budget of these five ministries is less than the Rs 3,58,000 crore that the public is spending just on these five types of exams. So this is a government that is snatching education away from children. And amid the seriousness with which Rahul Gandhi is fighting this battle by going among students on the issue of education, this CJP movement started and has also ended. But our movement has not ended. Through 'Chatron Ki Goonj', the Congress party is continuously holding protests in thousands, in different cities across the country, through our NSUI, Youth Congress and our other Congress affiliate organizations. Our protests are ongoing, we are continuously fighting the students' battle.

Can the alliance with SP be considered certain? The way Rahul Gandhi and Akhilesh Yadav were seen standing together during the protest, seen being arrested together — what will be Congress's approach towards the alliance with SP?

There will be an alliance, but it will be with respect. Both sides will have to respect each other. Both will have to give each other's party survival and strength. It's not that we want to finish them off or they want to finish us off — that won't work. Both should strengthen each other, both should have vote transfer between them, both should give each other strength. And equal seats and respect — both should be equal, it should be respectable. And I hope this will be a respectable agreement.

When you say equal seats, there is a slight difference between respectable seats and equal seats. So for equal seats, should we assume a target of 200 seats for Congress?

You go ahead and assume 200, but later when senior leaders sit together, and if there's a little give and take when they sit together, we are not that rigid either. Because we also have to honour the dharma of the alliance, we have to strengthen it too. But it has to be given with respect. My opinion — and it's the party's opinion too, not mine alone — is that the agreement should be made with respect.

One main problem coming up for Congress across the whole country is that the list of leaders leaving the party is very long. And Uttar Pradesh is no exception to this. Your big leaders, leaders from Rajiv Gandhi's time like Ajay Kapoor; or RPN Singh, Jitin Prasada, Annu Tandon, or Praveen Singh Aron from Bareilly — all of them left the party, some went to BJP, some went to SP. How will you address this problem? And also, some old leaders, like Dr. Nirmal Khatri from Faizabad (Ayodhya), appear quite inactive — what have you thought about that?

He is not inactive, he is unwell. Yes, he is bed-ridden. He had a serious lower back problem, and perhaps he even had surgery. He is active, but not physically well. As for the other leaders, when it's a fight to save the country, whoever has the courage within them will stand together in that fight to save the country. They broke big parties, they scared and broke big leaders. Whoever they start ED, CBI investigations against, that person leaves. So many people have left out of fear, but the party is bigger, an individual is not bigger. And votes are cast in the name of the party, votes in the name of an individual happen very rarely, by chance. Otherwise, the public votes for the party and the party's policies. And now the party is emerging very strongly — you will see this with your own eyes. Within a month, discussions about Congress have already started in village after village.

There was some sharp back-and-forth on X/Twitter between your old party, the Aam Aadmi Party, and Congress. There was controversy over Rahul Gandhi not going to Jantar Mantar, on which Sanjay Singh and Atishi also tweeted — what do you think about that? Do you think Rahul Gandhi should have gone to Jantar Mantar?

Look, tweets from Sanjay Singh or Atishi about Rahul Gandhi ji mean seeking cheap popularity. These are the same people who, along with Anna Hazare, joined hands with the RSS and BJP, and ran the movement at Jantar Mantar and Ramlila Maidan to defame the UPA government — that was an RSS movement. That was a conspiracy hatched to defame and finish off Congress. Otherwise tell me, where is the Lokpal today? The two scams they named — the 2G spectrum scam and the coal block scam — which they used to defame the UPA government, what happened to those scams? In one, their own CBI filed a closure report, and in the other case, the court said no scam happened at all. So what was it then? To this day they haven't even apologized for falsely defaming [the government]. So these people are somewhere connected with them. This is the B-team, so the B-team will attack, because these people have become scared of Rahul Gandhi. And if in their nervousness they make silly tweets, it doesn't really matter much.

One last question — you also met Swami Prasad Maurya ji. Besides him, who else are you in contact with, and by when can their joining be considered final?

At least 50 party presidents or responsible people from various parties have met me. Among them are parties of different castes — there are many Dalit parties, and there were even more parties of backward classes. I have met with all of them. And Swami Prasad Maurya is our old friend. So out of friendship we met him, he meets us too. When he comes to Delhi, he comes to our place; when we go to Lucknow, out of friendship we meet him too. Behenji (Mayawati) is our old leader, a big leader of the community. We respect her too. We used to meet her father at her house, her brother used to come to our house. We respect her too, so the attempt we made to meet her was also out of that same respect. We had gone for one of our programs — there was a Congress party meeting, and the next day there was an unveiling of a statue of Veera Pasi ji. So after finishing the meeting, as we came out, Behenji's bungalow was right there. I remembered that whenever BSP people come to our house and meet us, they say, "Behenji belongs to the community, so as a fellow community member you should at least say Jai Bhim sometimes." We had gone just to ask after her well-being, to inquire about her welfare. Her staff said, "Leave your number, we'll give it to Behenji, and whenever she wants to call you, you can meet then." So our social relationships with our own people, whichever party they may be in from our community, won't end just like that. One should respect others, so we give that respect too.

Uttar Pradesh Elections: 'We'll Ally With SP but Based on Respect' Says Congress UP In-Charge Rajendra Pal Gautam

Rajendra Pal Gautam, Congress’ new in-charge for Uttar Pradesh has been tasked with rebuilding the state unit's organisation ahead of the 2027 Uttar Pradesh Legislative Assembly elections. Gautam is a unique leader, being one of the most senior Aam Aadmi Party leaders to shift to the Congress. He previously served as a Cabinet Minister in the Delhi government and had to resign over his participation in an Ambedkarite function.

In this interview with journalist Syed Kamran Husain, he discusses his strategy for Uttar Pradesh, Congress' outreach to Dalit voters, the state government's record, prospects for alliances with the BSP and the Samajwadi Party, the students' protest movement, and the departure of several senior Congress leaders from the party.

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'We'll Ally With SP but it Will Be 'Equal'': Congress UP In-Charge RP Gautam

Formerly with the Aam Aadmi Party, Rajendra Pal Gautam is now Congress in-charge for Uttar Pradesh.

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Topics: Rahul Gandhi Akhilesh Yadav Dalit