'India-Pakistan Telling Lies to Own Sides': Pak Military Expert Ayesha Siddiqa
Pakistan is winning the narrative war against India in the international court of opinion, Siddiqa tells The Quint.
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As the dust settles on the military escalation between India and Pakistan post the 22 April terror attack in Pahalgam, the war of perceptions remains rife.
In an exclusive interview with The Quint, Pakistani military expert and Senior Fellow at the Department of War Studies at King's College, London, Ayesha Siddiqa, tells senior journalist Harinder Baweja how the 'war' between India and Pakistan has made General Asim Munir, now elevated to Field Marshal, the new 'hero' of Pakistan.
Speaking in detail about Pakistan's response to Operation Sindoor, Siddiqa, who is the author of Military Inc.: Inside Pakistan's Military Economy, states that while India and Pakistan have officially been 'enemies' for the past 75 years, the two know very little about each other.
Read the edited excerpts from the interview:
Let's start with the big question. General Asim Munir, the Pakistani Army chief, has now been elevated to Field Marshal. What does that mean for Pakistan? And how should India be reading it?
Well, in a way, it was meant as a signal to India. It symbolises that the political government recognises the contribution, the leadership of Asim Munir, and is rewarding him for it with this title of of Field Marshal. The 'war' that happened between India and Pakistan ended inconclusively. Yet, the reading in Pakistan is that it's a victory (for Pakistan).
We shot down four to five of your aircraft, including three Rafales. I mean, it's coming out more in international media now... It was mentioned in a report in the Rusi Royal United Services Institute's (RUSI) UK journal... From Pakistan's perspective, there was a push from India. Pakistan deterred it. The government is feeling happy.
But what does it mean for India-Pakistan relations? What implications would it have? None. I mean the the magic lies in how effective you are on the field, not in the titles you acquire. If it's meant as a signal to Mr [Narendra] Modi, then it is ineffective. It's neither here nor there. In fact, many in Pakistan who had been supporting Munir and the military for successfully deterring India started making fun of Munir after the elevation. Some even joked if we should name him 'Qaid-e-Azam' now. So, it's almost like the political government snatching the good light away from him.
But India has not conceded to losing any aircraft... All it has said is that losses do happen in combat. And you mentioned that Pakistan feels it was victorious in this escalation between India and Pakistan. The reverse is true here. India feels that it taught Pakistan a lesson, that new red lines were crossed, that the Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) and Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) headquarters were targeted... India sees it as a victory. Is that not how Pakistan sees it?
No, this is not how the world sees it. Forget about Pakistan. It's now coming out in international media. The shooting of aircraft, espcially Rafales, was mentioned in the RUSI report by Dr Walter Ladwig, a professor at King's College, who is otherwise a scholar of India. He's not a scholar of Pakistan. And RUSI is a military institution.
In the aftermath of the escalation, the militaries of both sides may have learned their lessons (at least I hope so), and are kind of rethinking, restructuring, and changing some of the concepts that they had about each other. But what has been and remains problematic about this particular phase of the spiral of Indo-Pak conflict is that a large part of it is so performative, meant only for public consumption. In fact, so much of the narrative is driven by public perception and media perception that...we're telling lies to our own sides, and thus, raising expectation of violence. So now, in terms of Indo-Pak relations, there is likely to be an increase in violence as the expectation of violence on both sides has gone up. That is the 'new normal' now.
Do you mean that India may see another attack?
Well, the Indian government has announced that if there is another attack in India, Pakistan will see another attack as well. I mean, on 21 May, there was an attack in Khuzdar, Balochistan, in which children died. Now, of course, Pakistan doesn't have the capability of striking when it believes an attack has happened with Indian collusion. But if there is a response from Pakistan side to that, India and the Indian government has already announced that it will strike Pakistan again.
But India has formally denied any hand in the Khuzdar attack in Balochistan...
Let's not go down that path, for discussion's sake. Because Pakistan has also denied any involvement in Pahalgam.
Allow me to just point out a few things at this point...India has been at the receiving end of terrorism being exported from Pakistan. I'll give you concrete instances like Kargil, 26/11...
Look, I'm not denying any of that and I'm not saying that all of that is not true. I'm talking about perceptions, and I'm talking about what is there on the ground. I'm not saying JeM or LeT are not there, and I'm not even saying that these are not terrorist organisations. All I'm saying is that in case of Pahalgam, India has still not convinced the world, let alone Pakistan, that it has found any evidence against Pakistan's involvement. So in light of that, if there's going to be another terror attack on either side... why shy away from this understanding? Yes, proxy wars and terror is the new normal as well as a counter attack.
Is Asim Munir the one in the driving seat now? Is he the new hero in Pakistan? What about Imran Khan...
Yes, it appears so. Field Marshal Asim Munir is the new hero in Pakistan. But this is a short window. Let's also specify that. The reason being that, you know, once other issues (such as economy, livelihood, water-related issues) come up, once there are other policies which bother the ordinary people... it isn't that there won't be resistance. I feel Pakistan's biggest problem really is the economy. That's what we need to focus on. But once there is a push from outside, people tend to also come together. So, even if you dislike Asim Munir, for whatever reason, once he could demonstrate to the Pakistani people that it could protect against military strikes (by India, in this case), people were excited. People were supportive.
In terms of Imran Khan, he remains in jail. Here and there there is some softening in order to impress Khan's PTI support base, by giving them false hope, so they don't get back to criticising Munir and and the Pakistan Army. And so there has been a cooling down of temperature in the PTI circles against Asim Munir who, in the first place, jailed him. But the more militant, vocal PTI supporters have been neutralised.
For the full interview, watch the video.
(Views expressed in the interview are their own. The Quint neither endorses nor is responsible for them.)